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401 June 20, 2003

Cons:
Sorry for yet another long post...

To Nola:

Well, boy, DID I hit some soft spots!!!? On the other hand, don't worry, you didn't hit a single soft spot on me - if you read my earlier posts you'll see why I'm ACTUALLY here... Now why is that whenever someone challenges large-cock worship, they must have a small cock? I often defend women's rights, but just because I do doesn't mean I can't possibly be a man!

And Nola, what are you talking about? A woman who has a baby is often recommended to do exercises to get her 'shape' back - but I suppose you wouldn't know that as you've never planned on it...? And remember (look back at my post), I said (in the very first paragraph) that, IF the thinking of this site is true THEN blah, blah, blah. Now I don't pretend to know much about this sort of thing myself, but I've heard that girls not wanting to ruin their sex life is one reason for the modern preference for caesarean births... but anyway, it's a moot point and I don't have the knowledge or understanding to really back anything up, so all I want to say is I didn't make such strong claims myself... (and I was mainly wondering what the hell drove you to the kind of levels of cock worship you seemed to have reached!!)

So no need to get abusive, you just need to follow the logic of the argument... but maybe there's a reason you've been a bar maid all your life..?

And incidentally, talking about the reasoning (in those sections (you speak of)) of this website, you (one) could go through each point and systematically refute it! Don't make the mistake of thinking the assertions of this site are some kind of scientific facts. Take an example (off the top of my head), such as the argument that humans having the largest penises to body size proves that large penises have been selected (by women). Actually there is something else about human penis size which is completely missed - its diversity!! - which is unique to us. Now, diversity in a gene pool indicates a LACK of relevance in selection. Along the same lines, the low frequency of large penises is FAR better explained by genetic anomaly than by selection! Think about it and you'll notice that if (yes, I said, IF) there was any selection going on here, what would have been selected by now is THE AVERAGE (or perhaps you don't understand the meaning or significance of an average within a gene pool).

Furthermore, the mean usually remains such because the generations of any gene pool always tend to gravitate towards it, and in turn the reasons for this are perhaps two-fold - first, genetic anomalies are self-correcting if they are not specifically selected, and second, the mean is usually the most likely to survive (there are further reasons for this - and more reasons for those reasons :O) !! (as the saying goes, 'there are fleas which feed on the fleas' - meaning there is always some lower, more fundamental explanation for phenomena, we just choose the LEVEL of explanation which satisfies our needs; this is the philosophical process...)) Perhaps there was such selection at some point in our evolution, but this could have been well before we were recognisable hominid - which is arguably supported by the existence of variation is our cousins.


In any case the argument of this site makes the same classic error as in most modern everyday reasoning about evolution: putting the conclusion BEFORE the EXPLANATION. This is the sort of argument to which natural selection lends itself very well, and hence the myriad of evolutionary arguments which get bounded around to 'explain' all kinds of things. But a little caution would be highly recommended...

I could go on (and on, and on) with more examples, but to put the whole thing in perspective, consider the dangerous primitive world (pre-history, as it would have to be) and think yourself a woman. Even suppose you DO have a complete ability to select a mate - what characteristics are you going to look for to ensure your survival and that of your offspring? . God, I could go on, but I really don't have the time to do all your thinking for you - but, hey, it's never too late to start for yourself!!

(And I'd rather that nobody started on about me missing the point that the writer of this site is making! Actually I read quite an intriguing tone in the content of this site and I'd be very curious to sit and have a chat with the author - I rather suspect that a little bit of him is mocking the current popular media obsession with cock size.. But whatever his motives, I don't think they are entirely straight forward.. but that's a whole other issue..)

By the way, DMB is a guy from a penis enlargement company (come on, its bloody obvious!!!) So I wouldn't take anything he has to say too seriously...

Before I go, a question, then, for you. If a pussy (and yours in particular) can adapt to cock size - what's the big deal about large dicks? How much better is the extra stretch. Because if its significantly better, then why doesn't this work the other way around? Or is it just a different deal for men (be careful when you answer); they aren't supposed to want tight, new pussies, only women are allowed to want big, thick dicks...

Hmmm, its just that all the women on this site seem to get very defensive when anyone mentions pussy size. The occasional women seem to understand the jealousy that can be associated with this issue FROM BOTH SIDES. But most of the women seem to think this is a one-way deal. Perhaps women have to go through the growing up phase men went through regarding large boobs. And maybe it takes a bit of insecurity to do it... Hmmm, so, I still wonder how tight your pussy WOULD BE now that you've bled it (I mean, for god's sake, YOU BLED IT!!)..? Has anybody (any man) ever told you that they couldn't feel you (cause when I pay ATTENTION to it, I certainly noticed differences between women)? Maybe they were just being nice... Or maybe its just that many men nowadays are so insecure about their size that they don't stop to wonder about hers. This really needs to change - sex is a two-way thing...

My opinion again (see my previous posts): its mainly all in the mind...! And if I'm right, is it (was it) worth the blood!!

(I ought to add that not all women are like his. I was talking to a female friend the other day, and she made the comment that nowadays there seems to be a kind of reverse sexism, where its ok to talk about men in certain ways but not about women. She suggested its because there is a feminist lobby whereas there is no such lobby defending male issues - indeed men shy from this, because it is not manly to need such support... but now we get into other issues again. So anyway, at least some women are aware of the issue and the imbalance... )
402 June 20, 2003

Eighter:
Amen Gary well said my friend! That is what I'm talking about if she even has the nerves to try and post back to that she's a dumb slut. I still don't get why you said most women would love to be fucked by a 10 incher that just makes me laugh. Maybe if they want blood squirting out of their pussies. Seriously you just don't get it Nola a.k.a grand canyon pussy! I bet my 8 1/4 by 6 1/4 would get lost in your loose puss. That's quite pathetic if you ask me. So, get a life and go for your goal to get all the stds in the world. Hey maybe you might unleash a new std we have never heard of! :)
403 June 21, 2003

DMB the 21 year old:
I don't work for any penis enlargement company.

I WORK HARD AT IT.PERIOD. NOLA, I AM SORRY I GAVE YOU ANY GRIEF AND INSULTED YOU. THERE IS BELIEVERS AND NONBELIEVERS , I AM FINE WITH THAT.

ED: FANTASTIC WEBSITE. THANK YOU FOR THE MOTIVATION

CONS: YOU KNOW ALOT.

LET THE DEBATE GO ON.
404 June 21, 2003

J-Dawg:
Well I c things are getting hot and heavy in this place since i last visited.  12" is far to extreme. It seems obvious that a woman with Nola's sexual experience cud handle a dick like that, cuz otherwise the woman wud probably say, "Hell no!!".

I've seen some guys in here gettin on DMB 21's case about natural penile enlargement. Ppls, i've used tried the damn technique out myself for sometime now and it works. Just think about it logically.
U remember watchin National Geographic and all that shit as a kid?? U c those tribal groups with earlobes stretched all the way down to their shoulders? or extended necks? the human body is capable of many amazing things. it seems strange that all of a sudden, as soon as we get to the penis area of the human body, such extension techniques fail to work.

Like i said before i tried it, and i've gained less than 0.25" over 3 weeks. It takes a long time, alot of patience, proper technique, and perserverance. and no Cons, i dont work for no penile enlargement company. Although DMB progress is phenominal, stranger things have happen in this world.

C'mon ppl, keep it real and use the muscle that matters: the one between ur ears!!
405 June 21, 2003

Blackman:
This is a funny but informative site. Not all black males have horse organs between their legs. I'm 8x5.5, good length but I understand a girth of 6 or better is ideal to the sex crazed ladies out there, but you want to know something, I don't want those sex crazed white woman looking for a black or white man to put a big one in them. A cool white lady is OK, but not those sex crazed white women. Guys, what about oral sex. You have to think about your own sexual satisfaction too, a girth of 6, especially 7 or more and you can forget oral sex, which is a must right. You are sacricifing your own pleassure for a woman you can't really trust anyway. I don't want a bigger girth because I'm thinking about myself just as they are thinking about themselves.  I'm not a racist, but it seems like this is more of a problem with white women leaving their men or neglecting them if they don't measure up. Black women hardly ever leave their man because of a lack of penis, even for the brothers who don't measure up. Although the average black man will not be 4 or 5 inches as some I've seen up here, but most don't have 8 or more.They may leave him for other reasons but not this.Why are white women more obsessed about finding the big one? I'm curious. I think I know how the average black woman thinks and anything over 8 and they will tell them point blank, as the sisters know how to speak their mind, to go find a white woman because I don't want that thing inside of me. Maybe most white women will say they same thing. But black women to me just don't seem as obsessed with sleeping with a lot of guys to find the big ones. Maybe I'm wrong about white women in saying this. But My main message is to think about your own pleasure too, it's not all about the woman.
406 June 22, 2003

dash:
This site is amazingly thorough and very well put togther however I can only assume that it is designed to make the vast majority of men feel inadequate.

I am still looking for the link to a penis enlargement site but have not found it yet.

The two standouts for me are the 'Womens Penis Size Preference Chart' and the 'big labia' pages.

Only about 20% of men would have a penis lenght that scores an 'A' (over 7.5") and only about 10% of men have a penis girth that would score an 'A' (over 6.25").  Of this select group one would have to remove those guys with the length but not the girth OR the girth but not the length.  I can only imagine the tiny size of the group which meets both the length and girth criteria of the 'A' group.  So I guess about 99% of us are left to feel 'small'.  To the women who 'prefer' this size I can only say "good luck in finding someone" and "dream on"!

And the 'big labias' which you promote as 'preferred' are really very ugly.  I would be absolutely amazed if the majority of men did not agree with me.

It's such a great site I wish it would get in touch with reality.

dash.
407 June 22, 2003

Greg:
It's an interesting site. I always kind of thought that it did matter, I wasn't sure how much though. I'm about 7.25 x 5.5 and want an extra inch and a half or so on both those measurements. I've tried exercises and pumps and things, no luck as yet though. I think this makes me a low C or so. I've always been able to make my partners climax, generally multiples. I just think it looks too small on me. I'm quite stocky and muscular (good body with six pack stomach) and it just looks like it needs to be bigger to look in proportion. I've never had any complaints, but I doubt I've been talked about with lust and admiration. I do know that when we've used strap ons or dildos during sex (8-9 inches) my partner has always come very quickly and loudly. I think I'm alright at the foreplay though (I've been told I'm a genious with my tongue), and normally last as long as I need to, often over an hour. I give my partner around 10 or 15 orgasms each session. I never really feel adequate though. What do women think about me? Is the all round package enough to compensate for a 'C' grade dick?
408 June 23, 2003

Drwilly:
To Nola:

Please stay on this site.  Comments from ladies (notice that I said ladies and not sluts, CONS and 21 notwithstanding) is important to this debate.  Whereas I agree with statements regarding STDs and your robust sexual experiences and also doubt the measurement accuracy of the monster cock you have related, I suspect the ridicule you are receiving is from guys utterly unsure of themselves.  Why they could be repulsed by the fact you have had a huge one in your time is beyond me.  (I'm 8 x 7, by the way.)

Now, to all you guys wanting to argue about pussy size:  please note the name of this website:  penissizedebate.com.  I suggest you start your own website:  how about pussysizedebate.com?

Listen, when I read this web site, I got a rather obvious conclusion:  all things being equal, a woman prefers a bigger cock.  Well, DUH!  Of course she does.  It's the "all other things being equal" part that's the kicker.  All you guys writing in, if everything about two women were exactly the same and one had, say, bigger tits, wouldn't you choose the bigger tits?  Some people put different emphasis on different things.  A big dick may be very important to a woman, or maybe it's money, or looks, or how a guy treats her.  Same's true for guys:  looks, money, tit size, etc.

Also, let's leave Darwin out of this.  Natural selection takes thousands of years (we're taller now because of better nutrition, not natural selection).  Who knows how big our ancestors' penises were.

To the great oracle and philosopher of this discussion CONS:  When was the last time you got laid, and what was his name?

And, lastly, to 21:  Congratulations on your scar tissue.  It'll look great when you hit 40.

Clear up the language, guys.  Calling strangers profane names will leave you alone on this site.  Or maybe that's what you want.
409 June 23, 2003

getting bigger:
as the arguement rages on many swindlers are selling penile enhancement techniques for huge amounts of money.  if you search well guys, you can find the free instructions.  just run a search on it.  the techniques are pretty basic and reasonably logical.  the penis is smaller flacid and bigger erect.  therefore it stretches.  these techniques especially jelquing, an ancient arabic technique, use this principle by forcing more blood through the penis, stretching it.  this breaks down cells in the stretchy bits.  the body then repairs these, and after a lot of exercise you can find a size that suits you.  i reckon you should find a good longterm monogomous relationship then start doing these exercises, and find the perfect size for your partner.  lots of men out there find these exercises and start working it so hard they end up with huge novelty sized schlongs, which may be good in some ways, but because variation in women is much, you can be too big.  imagine growing yourself a 10" or so which is HUUUUGE and then finding the woman of your dreams who can't quite take it?  i'm not really experienced, maybe women can stretch and stuff but why risk it and cause pain.  these exercises i talk about could be great though for men in who feel that their dick is too small, and who's partner would prefer a bigger one.

like all things that are powerful these exercises which can be used to enhance a mans self esteem and intimacy, can also be used by wacked out men who just want 12" which incidentally might take about 5 years of this exercise.  in that way they are dangerous.
dudes, think of your motives before you do anything like this,  and be happy with who you are.

If you genuinely are what everyone calls "small" you can catch up to be in the average crowd if you want.  from there do what you want.

  these exercises take a lot of work though and you might think its not worth it for the gains.  i think it should be a joint decision between you and your long term partner.

i plan to enlarge my dick to a good solid size, between 7 to 8" in length.  and i'm only gonna offer it to my wife

i have some information of my own i have learnt, and would share it if anyone is interested.  i am a normal guy who has learnt about this stuff sorry this is so long, penile enlargement is easy and just takes the right techniques and enough time.
I strongly reccomend a thorough search of the free enhancement sites that don't want money, their motives are the same as mine and offer almost as much as the pay sites.  i really hope some dude out there who is small and wants to be at least average reads this and can find the information he wants to achieve this.
410 June 24, 2003

Marc:

 First,to Drwilly,the want to be moderator.Why don't you start your own site and moderate it to your liking.The moderator of this site has always allowed vagina size debate along penis size debate because
a) it's germaine to the debate
b)He himself talks about vagina size,talks about liking big pussy lips and wants us to do research for him on the subject of vagina sensitivity toward the subject:if women can differenciating lenghts and girths
And why do you compare women liking bigger penises to men liking bigger tits instead of tighter pussies?Is it because you like to fuck tits,then afterwards ask her if you were big enough for her tits? This is a penissizedebate not justwhatwomenthinkofpenissizedebate!!!

Many of the assumtions and statistic of this site are anecdotal and false.
Some of the false claims.
-That most men prefer women with large labias( and women with small labias are rejected,What!!!! man is this biased).The author doesn't have any real stats for this.Were is your studies Ed, tell us were to find them.Most women, with extra large labias,Iv'e slept with have confided to me when I asked out of curiousity,that they would get surgical attention to their large labias,if they had the money too.I personaly like medium to small labia,it's easier to get to the clit for giving oral and more esthetically pleasing.
-Says that a majority of women prefer a big penis over an average penis.This is anecdotal, where's the proof? All the discussion boards that I've been in suggest,by the response of the women,that overall they prefer an average sized penis, too small and they can't feel as much and too big it hurts.I don't think their is a definitive honest survey out there yet.
-His vagina size stats are estimated.Could be a long way off.
-As for the reason women aren't forth coming on penis size to their partner as the author claims, maybe because if that happened enough times men would start confiding on vagina size and women are way more sensitive to vaginas then men are to their penis size.
-I'm curious of the real identity and purpose of the author.He might be a woman, a feminazis trying to make men feel bad.Or a Penisenlargement company guy trying to flame the sales.At any rate,the good thing about this site is that it has provided a forum of discussion,for this male preoccupation.And most guys seem to be on the same wavelength on this on.Use what your born with.This is the main reason I post from time to time.

About penis enlargement.I tried this out of curiousity for about 3 wks.A routine of pumping,jelqing and stretching.I measured before and after. I estimate,that I gained about 5% PE overall.
Most likely it just streched out to top normal range.The best thing about the PE routine was that it provided better erections and a fuller penile feeling.It could be that with effort and time a man could enlargen to 15% overall but the claims of 30% enlargement overall are doubtful.Part of my research on vagina size will also bear on penis size enlargement.I think using some 50 men volunteers ranging from small to avg penis sizes,who never used PE techniques in their lives,are the perfect control group.Then separate them in different PE routines and faithfully follow them for a year.See what kind of results there is.Of cource,it would be video taped and verified with the proper accredited people.You'd only need one man to get a 30% overall increase to prove all the claims of PE adepts being made these days.Enough of all this guessing,true or myth.How much money wasted if it really is snake oil.If you are interested in PE programs just type "PE Forums" on a search engine(I use Google) and a few good one's will appear.They tell you in a lot of details how to do this PE exersises. They have a wealth of information and a support network. It's like getting all the info of all the programs of PE sites for FREE and then some.These guys swear by their increases and help each other out.By far,way more comprehensive knowledge then any one pay PE site. Because these guys have done all the research before hand and are way ahead of all the other sites.If anything for me,penis health should replace PE.But it would be nice to be able to get to your true maximum size(without a presently dangerous operation)with routines of exersises,if this proves to be true once and for all,if you so desired.A last thing that make's the author of this site seem somewhat bogus to me,is his claim that you should measure the lenght of your penis differently then BP.Boned Press measurement is a measurement of the erect penis with a ruler(preferably a carpenter ruler,it's thinner)from the pubic bone to the tip of the erect penis.The pubic bone is a standard for medical and condom survey of measurement of erect lenght for a reason.The author of this site says not to use a BP but instead press lighly to get a more accurate measurement.False again,the reason for a bone press is that the pubic bone will never change, but a fat person who takes a measurement like the author suggest will have a totally different penis lenght measurement if he loose weight to the point of being bone skinny.But if he did the bone press measurement the erect lenght will remain the same regardless of weight gain or lose,thus the most and only accurate way to measure.That why doctors and condom co. measure it that way.So I by all the falseness of this site,I come to the conclusion that maybe 40% is accurate and take the rest of 60% with a grain of salt.

As for vagina sizes.We men,that have had enough women,know that they come in various sizes,depths and tightnesses.Tightness being the most important of the two, unless your so long you can't fully thrust.The author of this site has got some limited stats on vagina sizes that I've seen on other sites. They are more anecdotal then true verifiable comprehensive survey.The survey and site I want to put up some day,will finaly dispel ALL myths.Video taped and pictures and much more will make the research undisputable(unlike this site,sorry Ed)Too much of today's emphasis is on how men can pleasure women.Ever hear of it take's two to tango.Because their is no accurate table of vagina sizes,that all women can be compared too, it's only a one sided tango as of yet.Way too much emphasis in the media and peer pressure on penis size.And it's not balanced with an equal emphasis on vagina size.A part in my research will be devoted too see if women can greatly strenghten their pussies.Not with those kegel exersises, they only tone the vagina muscle,they don't strenghten.Kegels by themselve are only isometric exersises.Basicaly, the PC muscles contract against themselves.A push up is an isometric exersise, but if you want real gain you add more and weight(resistance)to a strenghtening regime like weightlifting.Same with vaginas, I'm sure that if a woman use resistant spring loaded vagina exersiser and a complement of vagina weight lifting routine she can markably strenthen her vagina,instead of just toning it.Then when she got to the wanted tightness,she just does minimal upkeep exersises.I believe it is far more easy for the woman to tighten her pussy then it is for a man to enlarge his cock.So by what is logical,this is the way to proceed to increase a woman's pleasure,it's really more of her responsibility for her orgasms also.Only the chivralous castrated men think it's all men responsibilities to provide pleasure for a woman (basicaly such men are by nature morons).I fucked women with thight vaginas and women with gapping holes,I found it so much more pleasurable with the tight women, thou I was able to come in the gapping holes,it definitly wasn't as good.The point is that women will be lazy cunts with their vaginas until the same media and peer pressure come to bear.Women have the ability with some consistant effort to tighten their pussies.Yes,it will benefit men, but it will benefit women so much more:better feeling down there,better orgasms(because a better orgasm depends more on good contractions then a big stretch,unlike the false claims of the author of this site.Hey Ed, why don't women get the most terrific orgasm when they give birth,don't they get that maximum stretch, you'd think they'd all be rushing to get pregnant,so they can have that great great orgasm,giving birth),better continance(dribble on yourself less,if at all),knowing you are satisfying yourself and your partner.In reality,if  women could get more pleasure by a feeling of vaginal fullness and better contractions,should she not accomplish this with vagina exersises, would the onus not be on women to strenghten their pussies for their own pleasure,bieng that it is way easier to strenghten the pussy then enlarge the cock. For the womens efforts,the guys should do everything possible for the couples pleasure in love making!!!But doesn't it make sense that a loose woman that want's more pleasure should not put it on men size but her own pussy size and the fact she is to lazy to tighten har snatch.
411 June 24, 2003

Phatbatty:
Yes its about time people acknowledge that penis size does matter, to well at least us female. If a man comes to me with a small penis ,I am less likely to think in a sexual way of him , infact its almost sure that he would only get a pity fuck if none at all . Now,  a brother who is blessed with say 8 inches to nine would have me juicing up the place thinking about that in my pussy. He would be getting not a pity fuck but a fuck out of respect and sheer excitement.
412 June 24, 2003

Gina:
There really are women out there who would prefer medium-sized men to huge.  I can identify the 2 largest, and 2 smallest men I have been with, and everyone else is kind of just in the middle.

Not being in possession of a gaping twat I'm afraid I am not a fan of the "can of corn"-sized member.  I'm also not a fan of excessive length either - there's nothing more distracting than having someone knock-knock-knocking on bits that are just not meant to be involved in sex.  Plus, I have a tilted uterus which  really puts a cap on what I find pleasurable.

Maybe men should be a little more interested in finding women who don't have craters for vaginas.
413 June 24, 2003

Jay:
I am White and have a 7.5" penis when erect. My Chinese wife becomes multiple orgasmic every time we make love and has the loudest orgasmic scream I have ever heard.  Her first husband's was 4.5" and remembers having had only one orgasm with him. We make love until we are both exhausted and satisfied. My aim is always to please her first and, believe it or not, I get more sexual enjoyment out of satisfying her than satisfying myself.
414 June 25, 2003

PubMed:
Well, I will quote a recently published study in a medical (i.e. scientific, expert-reviewed journal)

Eur Urol. 2002 Nov;42(5):426-31. 

What importance do women attribute to the size of the penis?

Francken AB, van de Wiel HB, van Driel MF, Weijmar Schultz WC.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Groningen University Hospital, P.O. Box
30.001, 9700 RB Groningen, The Netherlands.

OBJECTIVE: A great deal of men consider that the size of the penis is directly proportional to its sexual power. Some men, who are worried that their penis is too small, wish to be considered for surgical lengthening or thickening procedures. The argumentation for this chiefly points in the direction of women.
However, have women actually been asked about the extent to which they consider
the size of the penis to be of importance from a sexual point of view? Or asked
what they think about ideas surrounding the size of the penis in relation with actual sexual functioning?
PATIENTS AND METHODS: To address these questions, 375 sexually active women who had recently given birth at the University Hospital Groningen were asked a number of questions about sexual functioning and the importance they attach to the size of their partner's penis.
RESULTS: A total of170 questionnaires were returned (response rate 45%); 20% of the women found the length of the penis important and 1% very important; 55% and 22% of the women found the length of the penis unimportant and totally unimportant, respectively.
Opinions about the girth of the penis followed the same trend. Length was less important than girth: 21% and 32%, respectively. The women who found the girth of the penis important had the same opinion about the length of the penis (correlation 0.71, p=-0.001). Median division into two subgroups (girth important/unimportant; t-test) did not reveal any significant differences in relation with demographic data. Correlation analysis did not reveal any significant correlation between sexual functioning (measured with the NSF) and opinions about the girth of the penis.
CONCLUSION: Although clearly in the minority, a nevertheless considerable percentage of the women respondents attached substantial importance to the size of the male sexual organ.

PMID: 12429149 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
415 June 25, 2003

Jean Paul:
hi...i have a small one and proud of it
416 June 26, 2003

Cons:
To DMB 21, J-Dawg, (and now to Marc also):

Ok, I have to admit, I've never looked much into penis enlargement, so I can't dismiss its effectiveness automatically. Its just that it seems a little difficult to accept. 

J-Dawg, people may have altered their bodies in the past, but it came at a price. When people enlarged their earlobes, or their necks, or when (Japanese) women were forced to prevent the natural growth of their feet in order to achieve smaller (supposedly more feminine) foot sizes, there were other deleterious effects on the body. The tissue itself is affected. In the case of stretching, the tissue usually loses some of its structural integrity. I wonder if (and expect that) the same would happen to penis tissue. And remember this is a very unique type of tissue which must become engorged with blood. Its not simply like earlobe tissue, which just hangs there...

If it's a case of maximising one's potential, well, eerrm, ok, I can kindof see that, but can't get away from the idea that this is an attempt to alter a fairly fixed characteristic of your body... But in any case, it doesn't bother me that much if it'll make you a more confident and happier person. I just think the trouble you have to go through has no other benefits (pumping iron has at least the benefit of a healthier body). But then, I generally disagree with cosmetic surgery (so you might say I'm biased:O) but a lot of people go in for this, and provided its not too gruesome or dangerous...

Hmm, well, my last girlfriend's sister had her face treated with laser to remove some red veins which were showing through her skin. I couldn't see the point when she said she was going to have it done (there were hardly any veins) but it made her self-conscious and the procedure was so uncomplicated and safe... Well, she had it done, and I have to admit, her skin afterwards looked really quite luscious (but then, it did before..).

So in short, my only worry with penis enlargement programmes, exercises, techniques or (worst of all) surgery, is that its dangerous and only increases size at the cost of functionality... So just be careful, guys... and think hard about whether its really worth it...

Actually, to see the other side, as I've said in earlier posts, my penis size has been nothing but a problem with my current girlfriend. Right now, I love her immensely and would, if I easily could, REDUCE the size of my penis - it would make sex a lot easier. But at the end of the day, if we really care for each other, it won't matter because we'll adapt...
417 June 26, 2003

Cons:
To Blackman:

Interesting to hear your comments - I've heard a similar story from black friends on occasion. Also, friends from Greece and Germany and other continental countries who come here (I live in London) tell me this obsession is mainly a UK (and I suppose, US) thing. Sure there has always been talk about it and the notion of bigger is better has been around before (though not always, as some would have you believe.)  But the current fetish-level mass-hysteria is quite new... Although the kind of women you're talking about, I suspect, have been around a bit longer than the fetish...

I'm not black, but from what I gather the issue of size is indeed of less concern to the black community. Hence the low response from this community to penis size surveys and the like - they just don't care that much (yeah, I know there may be other reasons too...)

Its also good to hear from a guy who doesn't need to rely on penis size for self-esteem. I suspect a lot of the guys who argue that there is a single optimal size for all women have little else to offer, and have certainly not looked around at the variation in female anatomy (or the male).

Of course it is becoming more important - but this is, in my opinion, an artificial fashion, rather than some physiological reality.
418 June 26, 2003

Cons:
To drwilly:

Doc, you're a funny one. Why leave Darwin out of it when there's several pages on this site devoted to his theory and arguments based on it? And yes, we ARE talking about it in terms of thousands of years (everyone knows that).

Pussy size: For god's sake, there isn't ANY POINT talking about  penis size if you don't talk about VAGINA SIZE!! How can you talk about how big something NEEDS to be unless you know what its going to be put into?!?!?! I mean, come on (!!) THAT'S OBVIOUS!! Does someone (anyone!) really need to keep pointing that out!

Larger boobs?: Actually, all other things being equal I would not necessarily choose larger boobs. If you can't accept this, suppose your girlfriend (wife) had boobs that were twice the size of a football, would you want them bigger (all other things being equal)? So maybe you have a limit beyond which you would no longer choose this. Hmmm, well then suppose others had a limit that was slightly below yours, and someone else had a limit below that... Don't know how far this would go, but you get the point..

And what's with the question doc?: When's the last time I got laid!?!? Huh, well, if you had read my posts, you'd know I have a girlfriend (just as I know you have a wife) and so the last time I got laid was a matter of hours - err, so what? And btw, what gave you the impression I'm gay? Was that supposed to be some kind of an insult? Because I don't find the insinuation insulting in the slightest, it's just erroneous.

Finally, the point about Nola is NOT that she had sex with a guy with a large dick or that she enjoyed it, the point was mainly that she ended up bleeding from her experience, but STILL valued the size. As a man maybe its hard to get a handle on this... Now women do bleed from down there, so maybe this isn't the same, but imagine a man who sleeps with a woman who's so tight that she squeezes blood from his cock... what would your advice be to him? To go back and get more; to keep trying because eventually the stronger scar tissue would be able to take the strain. Or might you be tempted, say as his friend, to suggest he develops a slightly less damaging fetish and choose a woman who is not quite so tight. THAT's the point doc...

Btw - I missed the bit where I called Nola a 'slut'..?

And that comment about 'oracle and philosopher' - really doc, what's that supposed to say? I'm here throwing in my thoughts, knowledge, experience and opinion, just like everyone else. I'm trying to be open-minded and reasonable. I'm trying to see through any hype at the realities that are around us  - that's all...

And I don't know what you're getting so sensitive about anyway - no one's saying that your cock is too big or the wrong size for ALL women. (Maaan, you are insecure!) On the contrary, I am sure you are some women's (your wife for example) ideal... So don't worry so much...
419 June 26, 2003

Cons:
To The Ed.:

Sorry to post three in a row - I don't want to dominate this debate particularly, but I felt I wanted to respond to Blackman, should respond to DMB and others, and felt slightly provoked by drwilly...

In any case, you know I disagree with the premises (and most of the assertions) of this site. I just keep coming back reading someone's comments and thinking they have read your site as if its gospel, which I'm sure you'll admit, it isn't. I don't deny the hype is growing, I just don't think its worth giving the false impression that somehow everyone (everywomen) should want exactly the same thing, otherwise there's something wrong with them (her)...
420 June 26, 2003

DMB the 21year old:
 Thank you J-Dawg, for stickin up for me.
congratulations to "getting bigger", I liked his email.

and to the "Blackman", I agree with what you had to say about sex crazed middle aged white women. Black women have always treated me much better, and I enjoy their company much more, and I am a white male.

I didn't believe that it possible to enlarge your penis but I had a plan and took a leap of faith back in December.

now for "Drwilly" explain "scar tissue" to all our penis enlargement hopefuls. Lets hear your theory.
421 June 26, 2003

Niceguy:
This site tells it like it is.  My last girlfriend dumped me for a guy with a huge cock.  I don't care how great a lover you are, if a man has a larger cock than you, it's impossible to compete.  All women want a man with a big cock, if they find one they will do anything he wants.  End of subject!
422

 

June 26, 2003

Peter:
Many thanks for your site on penis size. As the owner of a 9 1/2" x 7" cock, I found it refreshing to find the truth spoken for once. Loved the thoroughness with which you exploded the stupid myths and idiotic sayings re. cock size. I know for a fact that cock size matters - mine is a Grade A one, and I've been told so frequently by women, who also say that the difference is enormous.

Many thanks.
423 June 27, 2003

Amy:
Hi,
I just wanted to say I whole-heartedly agree with your opinions on penis size. The first guy I had sex with was pretty small and did nothing for me because, as you said, i wasn't excited by his dick. My husband now is around 10-12 inches and when he makes love to me, I quiver at the thought of that juicy piece of meat splitting me in two. Big dicks are also a lot more fun to suck on... there's just so much more to stuff down your throat!
424 June 27, 2003

Steve J:
I agree with Jon B (message 374)... This site is a penis enlargement industry front and anyone who falls for this 'big cocks are better' bullsh#t are just gullible.

Every second post on this board is supposedly from some guy with an 'A' grade cock saying how happy he is with all the sex he's getting.  Come on guys open your eyes!  The people typing these messages are Penis Enlargment company plants... desk johnny's being paid to give the impression that everyone in the world has an 8" cock except you. It's all a lie.

And what else do you notice on this board.... large breasts and large labias are desirable also!!!  Can anyone else see a pattern emerging here???

Steve.

ps If this message does not appear I will KNOW I am right.
425 June 27, 2003

NKing:
 This is an interesting site, my wife and I have a great sex life, and we are very open about  sex and talk about it regularly. One day I asked her what if my penis was smaller like 5 or 6 inches, she said it would'nt work, she like my 8x6 penis and says it fits just perfect, it is hard for he to give a good blow job becuse she can't fit alot of me in her mouth but she still does a good job anyway, and anal sex in not going to happen even though I would like to try it. But IMOP women are different, my first wife was not happy with my size she said it should be alot smaller, and over time this lead to less and less sex, becuse should could not take it, so I believe size does matter but the right size is very different between women. There is my 2cents.
426 June 27, 2003

AJ:
Peter - thanks for that post. We're really glad we've given your ego a boost to even higher levels.
Yep you're the absolutely perfect man.   Apart from being a prat that is.

AJ
427 June 28, 2003

mediocre joe:
Uh Yeah,
I would like to say that I just read through your entire site. I have a rather unimpressive penis (it's kind of small) and have not have many sexual experiences. After digesting all of this information, I want to kill myself.
                               Thank You

(Yes I did read the disclaimer, and yes I will concede the fact that none of this information is out of reach for anyone who possesses the slightest ability to think analytically. SCREW YOU ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
428 June 28, 2003

nick:
Wow,

As a man with a small penis I should do society a favor and either remain abstain from sex or kill myself (in order to avoid polluting the gene poll and wasting the precious time of women who could be with a "real man"). I am extremly disturbed by this pervasive notion that men should be judged by something they have no control over (penis size), and its proliferation through the poplular media. Many women mistreat men because of the size of their genitals and it is very disturbing. I have had this happen to me throughout my life and would like to promulgate one thing: I have a small penis and I AM PERSON!!!!!!
429 June 28, 2003

Patrick:
Guys. THere is nothing wrong with Nola. If she were a he, you would be all giving high fives in the locker room.

And think about what she said, women do have babies and the size of the baby compared to a dick is non comparable?

Does that mean your wife is useless after her first kid? Grow up. The pussy is very accomidating, it just depends on what mentally turns them on.

I for one would like to see Nola's lips too : )
430 June 29, 2003

Pantera:
Amy how is your husband from like 10 to 12 inches I think it would be anywhere from 10 to 10 and a half. What's up with the huge gap/? Just a guesstimate or what?
431 June 30, 2003

J-Dawg:
To CONS:

I have to agree with u on that issue of the detrimental effect that increasing the size of one's body parts can have. As u said, compared to the foot, the ear or the neck, the penis is a very delicate organ. If ya make a mistake when it comes to the guy between ur legs, ur screwed man.

My reasons for gettin involved in penile enlargement stem from my refusal in admitting that just becuz i was born a certain way means i must be like that all my life. If it's to do with the size of my penis (which is above average as it is already), my physical strength and ability, my intelligence etc, it dont matter. I wasnt born a Einstein or a Hawking, but yet i have an understanding of relativity and quantum menchanics. also, i wasnt born a Jack Napier, or Lexington Steele, but that dont mean i shouldnt be able to bring a smile on the face of my woman when it comes to sex, which is my number one priority.
That's the way I think, i dont know what other ppl wud approach the issue........

Keep It Real Ppls. Later
432 June 30, 2003

jon:
any girls with large labia, lemme know where you are.  you are hot hot hot
433 July 1, 2003

Mike:
I find some of the assertions on this site laughable, such as 6" girth being on the small end or, not even, "ideal". I believe that most women would prefer their guy to be above average, but definitely not the "ideal" according to what I saw here.

Women of all sizes should be doing their "PC/Kegel" exercises.  Vaginal size should not be an issue unless it is too restrictive.

People speak of others here pushing enlargement sites, which is also funny.  The best sites don't charge a thing and can be found by searching google for "free PE" (include the quotes). You'll find the best ones on the first page. Of course it works. People suggesting otherwise are either deceiving you, or clueless.
434 July 1, 2003

rawbob8:
GREAT WORK! Thank god someone had the guts (and time) to put together a site like this. Clearly, everyone will judge this site - first and foremost - on how they measure up. As you can imagine, your charts, graphs and research have validated what I felt to be true all along!

Being 7 3/4 by 8" and GAY (i was married for 12 years to woman, so i've seen both sides), the prostate is the key! So, lenght is also. Now, the good news for lesser endowed folks is that the prostate lies only 5" from the entrence of the anus. But, trust me, a longer thicker dick DOES feel better than a thinner shorter dick!

Now, also, I want to commend you for your comments on heavier (fatter men) and their penis size. This applies to fatter women too i guess. Body mass and Penis size DO make a visual and physical difference.

I used to weigh almost 200lbs and i am 5'8". In over the last 5 years i have lost just about 50lbs and  am at my ideal body weight for  my height (i now weight 152lbs). I can tell you that when i was fat my cock looked smaller - because my belly dwarfed my cock. Now that i'm leaner, even at 42, my cock stands virtually straight up and is now VISUALLY more attractive to my partners! I no longer have to JAM the ruler down thru my fat to measure my cock.

And yes, women DO check out men's packages. I"m totally out at work, all my female co-workers know i'm gay - hell, my lover of 7 years just started working at the same company. Because i'm always trying to look my best (physically and sexually) i rarely wear underwear under my jeans (we have a very very casual work environtment). I'm always so amazed when a woman (clearly a close friend) will lean over to me and say, "Bob, do you know how clearly i can see the outline of your dick through your jeans?" And I always reply, "It's totally intentional!"

No matter who's looking, I love wearing my tight blue jeans with no  underwear. To see the eyes dart down and back up quickly is a validation that all my hard work to lose weight and get in shape is paying off!

Thanks for being upfront and honest! I hope more find this site!
435 July 2, 2003

johnny:
well--- i really wonder how many of these posts r the honest truth.I doubt many.NOTHING  & I MEAN NOTHING, can increase the penis except surgery & then u look like crap.The average penis is 4"--6" x 3"--5"--hard.over 90% of males are within this range.thats the true facts.If all a woman thinks about is a big cock inside her wet pussy, thats her right.after all, ITS HER PUSSY. I am avg size & i had sex with a woman that had a long time b/f with a 10 incher.let me tell u, she was nice & snug 4 me.I did not slip out & the sex was great.( explain that ) I did have one bitch say my cock was rough on her & her former lover was much bigger.then i had one compare me to a chinese lover of hers, just saying i was a lil bigger.DAMN....oh well, everyones different.I dont have a choice.im stuck with a avg sized dick.it could be worse, i could be small.( well--to some i am ) i did try penis enlargement pills ( all natural , my ass ) i took 2 pills a day for 120 days.NOTHING CHANGED.$115.00 down the drain.oh well.....life goes on.BTW---the avg soft dick is 3.0"--4.5" 
436 July 2, 2003

Rory M:
To niceguy, my last three girlfriends all left guys with bigger cocks then me. One of them was a lot bigger (8"+). I'm 6". I think many of these posts are from one or two guys who work for a penis enlargment company, especially the ones which say nothing more than that they agree with this site and big cocks are all that count. Some of the guys here are looking for excuses to why they got dumped but its men that think only along one line and thats why they can only think of one thing and get obsessed with it. To the guys who reckon they got dumped for bigger dicks, I bet there were a load of other reasons you were crap. Dicks probably had nought to do with it!

To patrick, would you give a male bar tender high fives for fucking till his dick all sore and bleeding and treating women badly - I wouldn't!! You grow up man!

This site is crazy, most women aren't as dumb as you think!
437 July 2, 2003

DanM:
Man I am so glad I read these comments after reading the site I was totally depressed because I thought it was true. The writer of this site should be ashamed of himself, saying this stuff like he knows what he's talking about. Its your opinion dude, just cause you had some bad experiences with some women don't mean they are all bad. I reckon you got a really small one and got totally obsessed with it man. I bet you drove your girlfriends mad with your obsessing. I bet maybe you convinced them you were right or even tricked them into saying things they didn't mean just so you can support your own opinion. Dude, do you realise, without these comments, a lota people are going to think this stuff is true. Yeah, well I bet you believe it yourself, but your just making it worse man, that's all. Theres no science here man, there's nothing. Just some mad rantings from some half crazed paranoid guy who never believed a word any women told him unless it backed his own opinions. You see things how you want to man, but the world aint that simple as you make it. Everyone's different. There's no such thing as a perfect man or woman for everyone. We're all different.  You 're like the german nazi trying to prove jews are misers because they have big noses or white men a hundred years ago trying to prove black people are closer to apes. Sure you can argue it but its biased bullshit! Scientifically you have nothing!

You should link up with these guys: http://www.
[name of racist site removed!-ED]

There's a lota similarity between you and this site!
438 July 4, 2003

Girth:
I am also waiting for the Doc's theory of scar tissue and it's relation to natural penis enlargement. Don't leave us "hanging", Doc! :D
439 July 4, 2003

Deb:
Guys, guys, guys.

Listen up. It's time you got a real woman's perspective on this.

Unless you walk around the street with your cock hanging out of your pants there are going to be many other attributes that make you attractive to a woman LONG before the size of your penis comes into the equation.

You will attract a woman by being clean, polite, friendly, sensitive, caring, generous (with your emotions not your cash), confident, interesting, communicative, loving, considerate, patient, trustworthy, responsible. I could go on but hopefully you get the point.  If you have all or most of these qualities no woman IN HER RIGHT MIND is going to dump you because you have a 6" dick instead of an 8" dick. 

If a woman is so shallow and small minded that your cock size is her primary concern then I would suggest that she is NOT a woman you should be with.  Go out and find a woman who values you for ALL that you are.

Deb.

ps.  Instead of spending $50 a week on penis enlargement buy her some flowers and take her to dinner.
440 July 5, 2003

feeler:
I stumbled upon your site purely by accident.  I read the ladder part of your thesis then went back to check out the table of contents.  While I find your advice to smaller endowed men sound I didn't find any section addressing gay males and their concerns.  I guess its a strictly straight site but a penis is a penis.  I am a gay male with a 5.75 inch long dick.  I don't really feel comfortable with it yet I don't shy away from sex either.  I have had over 200 men thus far in my life time and about four females; got to try everything you know.  The four women I've had have been all different.  One was a gorgeous red hair with a very wet pussy, one a really fat one, another blonde and one dark haired.  They never commented about my size unless I brought up the topic.  I managed to give them all orgasms though of course being gay they did nothing for me.  With men I find its much more intimidating.  When a partner pulls out his 7 or 8 incher and you only have to counter with a 5.75 well you do feel awfully small.  Yet once the initial embarrassment fades the sex comes naturally.  I have seen all sizes, all shapes and lengths.  I once had a man with only a 2.5 inch erect dick; I probably gave him the best blowjob he ever had.  In truth though I really don't understand the appeal for large cocks but its like everything else in life. so yes:
1. A man is very sensitive about his organ; take care.

2. Technique plays as big a part in sex as dick size.

3. Enjoy what you have.  Surely there are better things one can worry about.

I think another comment said it best that the true measure of a man is when he honestly feels good about himself regardless of cock size.  Enjoy  that what is uniquely male.  Pull it, stroke it, shove it in somewhere.
441 July 5, 2003

Chris:
This site is 100% on point, to the extent that it offers statistics on size. Most men are about six inches.  I have a nine inch penis that is very thick.  From the time I was 14, I had all kinds of attention from women because of my penis.  Its a fact that well endowed guys get much more attention if women see the penis or hear about the penis from others.  When I was in my late teens, I can remember having women in their 30s and 40s giving me oral sex. I also had men ask me to have sex with their wives.  Unless you have a large penis, you cannot fully appreciate how much of an effect it has on women.  Whenever I am alone with a woman and engaging in foreplay, I always place her hand on my crotch.  If a woman starts to rub there, I immediately pull down my pants.  In 15 years of doing this, I have never had a woman refuse to give me oral sex and vaginal sex.  Once they see a large thick penis, they are overpowered sexually. 
442 July 5, 2003

Smallone:
Having only 3 1/2 to 4 inches (when erect) many many women (most) have either laughed at the thought of having sex with me when they saw it or tried it and got so frustrated that they went elsewhere - a few stayed but left eventually. Sure it matters big time and makes it hard to keep a woman if it is 4 inches or below. Let's just face it and hope a woman will eventually not reject.
443 July 7, 2003

what does it matter:
This site is a bunch of shit. Woman want to post about how they perfer the perfect penis and by doing so they make everyman who isnt freaking 10 inches long feel like absolute shit. You woman dont stop to think about your vagina perphaps it may be to loose for us men and we need a site to ridicule how woman should be tight with large posterior laybas for comfort to the penis. what about the woman with the exterior layba? Might as well say they are useless just as this website does to men who arent about 7 inches or so
444 July 7, 2003

Claire:

I came across this site by accident and I have to say, I think this guy has made some big assumptions about women. I'm a sexually active 26 year old. I love sex, just like the next girl (and yes we do like sex JUST as much as guys). But guys, big cocks is NOT what most girls are thinking when they are getting it on! Sure some girls talk about it a lot, but I bet even most of them wouldn't make any decision based on it because they all know deep down that its not that important. It's just a load of talk.

Sure I've been to strip nights, and there is this WOW factor about large cocks, but if that thing was going to go inside me, that would be a whole different story. I've slept with guys who were pretty large and sure it was a thrill, just like I'm sure it's a thrill for you guys if you get to bed with a girl with large breasts, but to be honest it wasn't that great and actually quite uncomfortable at times. You do feel more of a fill, but after a while it becomes similar to smaller cocks (NOT TOO small, mind you, THAT does make a difference, sorry!). I DID NOT orgasm quicker OR more often with large cocks and in fact some of the best sex I ever had with a guy who was on the smaller side, he was totally gorgeous, and really sexy and confident, and I fancied him for ages before we finally made it.

Maybe some girls go for massive cocks, some of my friends say they do, but BIG never did it for me. So guys, quit worrying, the best sex I had was with guys who probably fell in the 5 to 7 range and that's the honest truth. You know, most of my friends when they describe a new guy they met do not even MENTION his cock. So you'd be far better off worrying about other things, like maybe this site for instance and the who wrote it. Having read these comments, I'd be a bit suspicious.

Oh, and I have to agree with some of the guys here who say sexism has gone the other way, but hey, we had to put up with for generations, so maybe you guys are getting to know a little of what it feels like!!
445 July 8, 2003

Greg:
There's a new poll for women that's just gone up that could be interesting if it gets a few replies.  It's looking for (amongst other things) whether women attach different importance to penis size or prefer different penis sizes for relationships or one night stands.

http://www.misterpoll.com/1363265562.html
446 July 9, 2003

George:
I agree with most of these comments that point out that saying 90% of men are inadequate for women is just the same as saying 90% of women are inadequate for men. But saying something like that is VERY stupid. I have a large-average cock, but it has NEVER stopped me bringing my partners to orgasm or vise-versa. Many women have told me that a bigger cock does not mean better sex and I guess they tell the guys with big cocks that size DOES matter. They probably lie just as much as men do, but WHO are they lying to?

So 90% of women are too loose to give a man the best orgasms? That is so stupid. I can't believe some idiot went to all this trouble to put together a website to say this. What a moron! What was the point?
447 July 9, 2003

JR:
Greg,

Do any such polls exist for men to take about what they want in women? Like a tight vagina? Having read this site, tight vaginas have become significantly important to me!
448 July 9, 2003

Girth:
Small one:

At least TRY penis enlargement. Not the pills, exersizes. Give it 3 months at least. Do a google search, "penis enlargement exersises". A lot of free information, don't pay anything. Join thunder's forum or cheeky cherry. I've gained size and functionality. It's fun, too.
449 July 9, 2003

Skimmer2002:
Just wanted to say if you are unhappy with your size, you can make it bigger with stretching. I was average at 6 inches in length. After almost a year of daily excercising for 1-2 hours a day, I am now 8+ inches in length and still gaining. It is not easy to make it bigger and there are big risks of damage if you are not carefull! I hang 15 lbs on my member for 20 minutes at a time to get my gains. The penis IS NOT a muscle, but IS soft tissue and soft tissues can be elongated with constant force. Just look at the African tribes that elongate lips, ears, necks, skin etc. I figure only 10% of the men that start such stretching exercises have the commitment and dedication needed to see gains. That is why so many people think that penis enlargement won't work. Also, some men gain easier than others. I am very fortunate to be a fast gainer.

Size does matter. Sex with my wife was always good before my gains, but now our sex is mindblowing. I now have sex 7-10 times a week compared to 2-3 times a week when I was average length. Size matters alot to me and my wife. I also love the looks from men and women as they stare at my buldge from my 6-7 inch flaccid penis (it used to be 4-5 inches flaccid).
450 July 10, 2003

Jess:
This site is terrific!  I have a few girlfriends who say that penis size does not matter to them and they are shocked that it does for me.  I say, yeah it matters.  I don't need huge, but if you can't feel it what's the point??  Nice job.

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